What My Friend's Emo Song Taught Me About Business: An Interview with Ghost Tour

The mix engineers who build sustainable careers have figured out something most haven't: your technical skills get you in the room, but your relationships determine whether you get invited back.

I see this constantly in my coaching work. Engineers with incredible ears and perfect mixes struggle to build recurring business, while others with good-but-not-perfect technical skills become indispensable to their artists.

Ghost Tour's collaboration with producer/engineer/mixer Joe Rom (Hilda Music Co.) and mastering engineer Billy Mannino (Two Worlds Recording) on "NBA Playoffs" is a perfect case study in how this actually works. I talked with all three collaborators to break down exactly how these relationships formed, how they approach the creative and technical process, and why Ghost Tour says they'll "likely be making records with Joe for the foreseeable future."

What you're about to read isn't theory. It's a detailed look at how friendship-first business actually functions in practice, complete with the specific systems and approaches that turn one-off projects into ongoing creative partnerships.

The Story Behind the Song

What's the story behind "NBA Playoffs"?

Mike (Ghost Tour): This song is about an embarrassingly debilitating crush I had on someone and the ways I tried to distract myself from it. I wrote the bulk of it in one sitting after coming home slightly stoned from an evening in the park with said person. Eventually I brought it to the guys, where it really took shape in terms of energy and structure—would you believe the first version only had one chorus?! It still has some of my favorite lyrics I've written and was one of the easiest songs for me to write.

How does being a writer professionally influence your songwriting?

Mike: They're incredibly complementary to one another. Whether I'm writing a song or writing an article, I'm always thinking about the economy of words—saying as much as possible with just a few lines. I've really been pushing myself to be hyper-specific in my songwriting as of late, and that's absolutely spilled over into my work as a tech journalist. I mean, why say "this speaker sounded good" when I can say "the soaring vocal harmonies of Tigers Jaw's 'Cat's Cradle' cut through in full detail over the crackling drums and rollicking bass"?

Building the Relationship

How did you connect with Joe for this project?

Mike: I'm a massive fan of Joe's band Innerlove, and eventually we became friendly after meeting at a show. He assisted on our recording session for Performative at Two Worlds Studio, and when we decided to mix things up for our next batch of songs, Joe was the obvious choice. I love the records he's worked on, and most importantly to us, he's just a great guy to be around.

What's your advice for engineers who want to build these kinds of relationships?

Joe: Be a homie! I think that's the most important part of this job. Most bands without major label support aren't hiring multiple people in different roles, so you just have to do a good job on the technical side. The rest is just being a friend, and having genuine love and respect for the people you're working with.

What was the biggest challenge on this project?

Joe: The most challenging thing was being nice to Beanie, the drummer, about him being a Red Sox fan born and raised in The Bronx. Like… what?!?! The best team in the American League is in your backyard and you're gonna root for the Red Sox?!?! We were both good sports about it, we traded some baseball cards. He's such a great guy, but I still just don't get it. [laughs]

The Creative Process

What excited you most about "NBA Playoffs" when you first heard it?

Joe: What excited me the most about this song was the big soaring chorus. I love when a song has a good payoff, and upon first hearing the song I knew we were gonna make that chorus hit hard.

How did the song structure evolve from the original one-chorus version?

Mike: That structure change was actually suggested by our bassist Bob when we first started arranging the song as a band. We knew the song needed a second verse and chorus and were just trying to figure out how to get there. The original version of verse 2 was pretty similar to the first, but Bob had the idea to switch up the chord progression halfway through—something that resulted in a really cool and dramatic buildup to the second chorus. Bob is low key the star arranger in our band; he's always calling me out for my repetitive songwriting habits (like starting every song I write with just vocals and guitar, haha) and pushes us to try something more interesting.

What was your sonic vision for the track?

Joe: What I really wanted out of the mix was to make them sound huge like some of the alternative rock bands of the early 2000s, but still preserve their 3-piece sound. So I wasn't suggesting layers of different melodies, but more layers of the same melodic content stacked to make the existing elements larger. There's some Rhodes piano in the verses just filling space in "NBA Playoffs"—that was a fun move.

What was the most surprising thing Joe brought to the project?

Mike: I didn't realize how big of an impact adding those small extra layers would have on a song. I love playing in a three piece and try to maintain that less-is-more energy on recordings, but I'll also never shy away from anything that makes the final product sound better. I think Joe helped us find that perfect balance, whether it was an extra lead guitar part or simply doubling an existing part with some chunky power chords. There's one song in particular where we really laid it on thick in a very cool way, but y'all will have to wait a bit longer to hear it ;)

How does being a musician yourself influence your approach as a producer?

Joe: Absolutely it influences my approach! I couldn't imagine doing what I do without being a musician first. I think it's very important to be able to wrap your head around each element of the song, and having experience on each instrument allows that to happen very quickly.

How did working with Joe feel different from other producers?

Mike: Joe being an incredibly skilled and passionate musician made a huge difference in our recording process. He always had ideas without ever feeling overbearing or like he was trying to take the songs over. He taught me so many little tricks about just playing my guitar, and would always coach me to play the part right instead of just relying on fixing things in post.

The Technical Side

How do you handle feedback and revisions?

Joe: I'll gather some mix references either from the band or on my own. If there are multiple songs, I'll do a first pass of one or two and send those over just to see if I'm going in the right direction. Based on the feedback I get from that "test mix," I'll do a pass of the whole project, and then the artist will send notes on my revisions until there are no notes. One thing I've gotten strict about is that I don't want separate notes from each band member. The band needs to collaborate on the notes so that everyone agrees with each point.

Mike: It was a pretty easy and simple process. We'd get a mix, I'd gather notes from the guys, organize them, send them to Joe and repeat as necessary. Since we've got a good relationship, we just exchanged notes over text, which made things fast and painless.

The Mastering Process

What was your approach to mastering "NBA Playoffs"?

Billy: My initial approach going into this was to touch as little as possible. The mixes were great, and I just wanted to push the boundaries on how loud these could get without noticeably altering the direction. After a little digging I realized the only area that would benefit from some tightening was in the sub. There were some deep lows that weren't really affecting the sound of the overall mix, but were interfering with my ability to boost the levels up as much as I wanted to.

Any advice for mix engineers on preparing their mixes for mastering?

Billy: Mix with a very light limiter on and send both the limited and non-limited versions. If you mix without a limiter, you're often going to be kind of bummed when you get masters back and realize the nature of adding a limiter, even with low gain reduction, may drastically change your mix. Mix into a limiter from the start and balance your mix against the aggression of a limiter.

How do you approach collaboration with producers and engineers?

Billy: Whether it's mixing or mastering, I like to have as much information as possible, and as much dialogue as possible from the engineer or band. Many artists/engineers will hand off files and just say "do your thing!" when asked for sonic direction or references. That's never a good idea. It's a team sport—your work isn't done once you hand it off to the next guy.

The Results

How does the friendship dynamic affect the creative work?

Mike: It makes a huge difference, and is the main reason we'll likely be making our records with Joe for the foreseeable future. Recording with Joe just feels like hanging out with a friend, and that makes me feel even more comfortable and trusting when we're making music together.

What should people expect when they listen to "NBA Playoffs"?

Mike: I'd say that you should crank it really loudly in your car but also spend some time with it in your headphones—both experiences will be a little different. Ultimately I just want folks to have fun rocking to this song, but also hopefully get something out of the lyrics. It's available on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music and every other platform you can get music on right the heck now!!!

Check out Ghost Tour's "NBA Playoffs" on all streaming platforms. Find Joe Rom at Hilda Music Co. and Billy Mannino at Two Worlds Recording.

My Takeaways for Mix Engineers

This collaboration perfectly demonstrates what I've been saying about building sustainable businesses in audio: the relationship is the business model.

Joe didn't get this gig through cold emails or industry networking events. He got it because Mike was genuinely a fan of his band, they became friends naturally, and when Ghost Tour needed a producer, Joe was "the obvious choice." That's how real business gets built.

Here's what you can implement immediately:

Stop networking, start connecting

Go to shows because you love music, not because you're hunting for clients. Support other people's creative work genuinely. The business relationships will emerge organically from real appreciation.

"Be a homie" is a business strategy

Joe's approach isn't just about being nice—it's about creating the kind of environment where artists feel comfortable taking creative risks. That comfort leads to better work, which leads to artists saying "we'll likely be making our records with Joe for the foreseeable future." That's recurring revenue built on trust.

Systems amplify relationships, they don't replace them

Notice how Joe's revision process (consolidated band notes) and Billy's mastering approach (two versions, clear communication) create more space for creativity, not less. Good systems free you up to focus on the creative collaboration.

Your musical background is your competitive advantage

Joe couldn't imagine doing what he does without being a musician first. If you're reading this, you probably have that same musical foundation. Use it. It's what helps you understand what artists are really after beyond the technical requirements.

Technical excellence is the baseline, not the differentiator

Everyone at Joe's level can make things sound good. What sets him apart is that Ghost Tour feels like they're "hanging out with a friend" when they work with him. That's what turns one-off projects into long-term partnerships.

The goal isn't just to get hired—it's to become someone artists can't imagine working without. Joe has achieved that with Ghost Tour, and it shows in everything from the creative risks they're willing to take to the genuine excitement they have about the final product.

That's what sustainable business looks like in our industry: work that everyone's genuinely proud of, relationships that make people want to do it again, and artists who become genuine advocates for your work.

If you want to dive deeper into building these kinds of creative partnerships and business systems, that's exactly what my 12-week coaching program is designed to help you do.

Photo Credit: Kelsey Roberts